The c-word.

So in this latest Momversation video, I seem to be the lone parent who delighted in the mutilation of her child.

I must say, in the pre-edited footage Maggie was pretty neutral on the topic—she basically said she didn't want to circumcise her son, but she could see the arguments either way. In the editing process she turned all anti-circumcision, and as a result it looks like I'm being ganged up on. Which works for me, because now I get the sympathy vote. Also, weirdly, they made it look like I've got a shirt on. Computer magic!

This was a particularly difficult topic for me, because in addition to anticipating the hate mail I would receive (anti-circumcision crusaders, I've found, really want to make other people feel terrible about their decisions), I was defending a stance that's sort of, well, not mine. As I say in the video, Scott felt really strongly that his son should be circumcised, and I agreed on that grounds. Of course if I were really violently opposed I would have put up more of a fight, but neither was I entirely gung ho on the procedure. So being put in a position to defend circumcision feels odd, to say the least.

Maggie made a great point in the original footage; basically she said, why do we feel that in order for our opinion to be right, we have to make sure that everyone who feels differently is wrong? And I think that pretty much sums up the fights about co-sleeping and breastfeeding and circumcision and crying it out and pretty much every single topic in these tiresome, endless mommy wars. In the end, we each do what we think is best for our families. What place does anyone else have to pass judgment?

Comments

[J]

My own situation was this... My husband is a surgical urologist. He's seen complications from circumcisions and he's seen the complications from not being circumcised. He is not circumcised, but thought it best to have our son circumcised.

To us it was simply weighing the risk of complications now versus later. There is no right answer. Either decision could result in no problems at all, or medical complications. The End.

[ali]

i am Jewish. my husband is Jewish. He had a bris. and my son had one too. it was something that was important to both of us.

i had a lot of people send me photos and literature and tell me i was making the worst decision i could make for my son.

here's a psa:if you believe it's wrong, don't circumcise YOUR sons. fine. but don't tell the ones who do that they are wrong.if you believe it's right, circumcise. fine. but don't tell people who don't that they are wrong.respect, people.

you = awesome.that is all :)

[Evenshine]

Without "wrong" there is no "right", (and vice versa) but I get your point (Finslippy) about *making people feel bad* about their decisions, which is different. It's entirely possible to disagree with someone civilly- a talent too sadly lacking in many people.We didn't. Mostly because it's barbaric. But you know- whatever floats your boat, right???

[Meredith]

My honest reasoning for wanting my son circumcised was because I insisted that any son of mine would have an attractive member. I personally don't like the look of an uncircumcised penis. I supose it's easy for me to be this superficial because it's such a common practice in our society. But my husband also comes from a very traditional Jewish upbringing. He talked to me about the tradition of it. He also has a background in medicine and talked to me about the health benifits. To all of which I replied "That all sounds great! Plus he'll have a pretty penis." Not to mention it healed better than his bellybutton. And everyone has one of those.

[spoiledonlychild]

Speaking of "tiresome, endless mommy wars," it seems to me that all these "momversation" videos do is dredge up tiresome old topics that moms will never agree on and force people to debate them again. Seems to be perpetuating the mommy wars. And also, causing all the mommy blogger sites to load incredibly slowly.

[Jamie]

When our baby is born next summer (not sure if it is a girl or a boy yet) I'll let my husband decide. I'm more against it since I know a few happy uncircumcised men who wouldn't want it any other way, but you know what? I don't have a penis. So whatever he decides is cool with me. And whatever anybody else does with their baby's penis is none of my business.

[Beth]

I'm with you, Alice, and I didn't circumcise my son. It's none of my business what anyone else does about this and so many other issues.

Oh, and sorry, Daphne, but your certainty reminds me of George Bush.

[Clare]

We split the difference, so to speak. First boy is circ'd b/c my husband's family is Jewish (though he is Catholic) and it was important to him. Second son is not, because I was so traumatized after our first was cut. So far, they're both fine. The 5 yr old hasn't commented on the difference between him and his little brother. I really don't think either one will get made fun of--most of my friends in the upper mid west left their sons intact, and I think about half the boys their age will look like them, no matter where we are. Really, it's nobody's business but the doctor's, the parents', and the boy's.

[CanadaSteph]

Wow this is a touchy subject. We chose not to have our son circumcised but feel that whatever is right for your family is your decision hands down. I do find it offensive though that some people who support cicumcision feel free to make fun of the appearance of the uncircumcised penis.

[Your fan]

Hmm, is it nasty to say that you, Alice, are the only one who came off as a thoughtful intelligent person in the whole "momversation"? I don't know those two other women but they are exactly the reason I do not read "mom" blogs. Except yours, which is so so so much more!

[Angela @ Lost In Splendor]

I'm pretty late to this discussion so I'm probably just echoing someone else at this point. Sorry about that.

I strongly believe in not circumcising my own future male children. That's just my personal opinion. HOWEVER, I can not stand the way in which some people tout their choices. I just can't stand the whole parade of one decision being right or superior whilst all other options are bad or wrong.

I'm glad you were out their with your choice and did not back down during your statements.

I appreciate other people being passionate about their own beliefs, but trying to force those beliefs on other people is wrong.

[Mary]

I've been reading your blog for a while now, just lurking around. This momversation and subsequent post really hit home for me. My son was born 6 weeks early and spent his first 9 days of life in the NICU. We had no plans for circumcision, because it wasn't one of the things we had really seriously discussed yet. We chose to keep him uncircumcised by the time we broght him home because I just couldn't stomach anything else happening to him. Come to find out, he had pretty serious phimosis. His circumcision became a huge deal, where we had to drive 2 hours to a hospital that could do a circumcision for him, and he had to be put under general anesthesia. The hour he was in surgery was the most tense hour of my life. He was 5 months old, and if we had just gotten him snipped to begin with, we wouldn't have had to go through the surgery like that, with breathing tubes and an epidural. I know not everyone has that big of a circumcision episode, but it can be a very tough decision for some people, and to have judgment passed can be hurtful. You handled yourself very gracefully in the momversation and I say good for you for making the decision to uphold your husband's religious beliefs and making the right choice for your child at that time.

[Slim]

Evenshine:

Does civil disagreement include using the term "barbaric" to describe decisions different from your own?Because that seems wrong to me.

[Michelle]

I agree with CanadaSteph. The fact that the circ supporters are doing it because they feel it's more attractive is, in my opinion, sort of sad. My first husband was not circumcised, and I had no problem with that. I did not find it unattractive or weird, and he never had any complications.

My current (and final-ha) husband is circ'ed and chose not to circ our son. My OB told us she is seeing more and more families choose not to circumcise and sees no problem with it. I don't care what others choose to do -- but I certainly hope they aren't all immature and 'Ewwww' about the appearance of a natural, uncircumcised penis. Geez. You know, it's really becoming quite common! ;)

As far as the penis being used as a measuring stick among the other boys, I guess that works both ways. If the circ'ed boys poke fun at our son, he'll probably just respond, "Um, guys, if you'll notice, I'M the one who doesn't have part of my penis cut off."

[Molly]

I find it strange that posters continue to comment that they "cant believe that someone would feel that this is anything other than a family's choice".

It's very simple: Some of us think that it is wrong to cut a child's genitals, female or male for any reason. And if it's wrong to cut a child's genitals for any reason, then it no longer becomes an issue of family choice.

This is how I came to my feelings on this subject, for example:

1) What is the analogous structure in the female anatomy to the foreskin? -- The clitoral hood.

2) If scientific studies had been published showing that removing the hood might or might not protect from various diseases and/or if I came from a religious tradition that routinely cut off a girl's clitoral hood, would I have it done to my daughter?-- The answer is no.

First of all, it is illegal. And second of all, no. I just would not do it. The very idea appalls me the way it might appall any of you, because it seems brutal to cut off a piece of a girl-baby's genitals.

A boy's foreskin, again, is physiologically analogous to a girl's clitoral hood, except is has even MORE nerve endings. It is also a part of his genitals.

If I couldn't do it to my daughter, I would never do it to my son.

I'm not comparing FGM with circumcision. I am comparing two analogous procedures done on two different babies.

That doesn't mean I think Alice should feel bad about her choice. We are all humans who do our best to try to understand what is right in the moment, and I really think she did that at the time. We shouldn't be attacked for small moral decisions made long in the past.

But if I have come to an ethical conclusion about circumcision looking at the facts logically, which suggests that it is NOT right, I won't be silent about that. And I'd ask that Alice, and all of you, seriously consider these ethical implications in light of my thought experiment above for the sake of future infants -- mine, yours or others.

[Pamela]

I think some people are dogmatic about the strangest things. There are much more horrific things people do to their children (abortion comes to mind) then have a teeny tiny piece of skin removed for cultural reasons or otherwise.

Hooray for the sympathy vote!

[steph]

I was pretty torn on the issue. The nurse who taught our birthing class was very much against it. My husband was for it. I educated myself about it, and in the end, trusted my husband's judgement, as he has a penis and I do not. My son's post-circ tears broke my heart. But those tears lasted all of about 3 minutes.

[Melissa]

This was certainly a difficult decision for our family. Husband felt very strongly for it, I was against it. Our oldest had an "improperly done" circ, which had to be corrected at age 2, in the doctor's office. The correction was HORRIBLE. I would never wish that on anybody. Our other 2 boys had the bell cap device (sorry, I can't remember the correct name of it.) It was so much easier to deal with and it didn't appear to be as painful as what our oldest went through. But, you said it best when you said each family has the right to decide what's best for them. I guess I'd hope that people would research to options that are out there regarding a circ. There are different ways of doing it and new research that may help ease the decision making process. I don't regret it now, but I do remember, 15 years ago, that it was huge in our lives and caused both of us a lot of stress.

[candace]

I'm not going to share my story or my views here because, frankly, none of it is relevant. What I wanted to add, Alice, is that I hope you don't beat yourself up or feel bad in any way for having Henry circumcised. First of all, he's your son. No one else has an opinion that matters (excepting Scott, of course). Secondly, it's in the past. There's nothing to be done about it now, so that's that. We all have to make decisions with the information we have at the time and beating a dead horse doesn't do anyone any good at all.

[Nicole]

I have male friends who are snipped and who are not snipped. The ones who are not circumcised say they wouldn't care either way since they are adults now. A few of them say if it wouldn't hurt so bad NOW they would get it circumcised, but they aren't unhappy with it.

Not one guy I know who is circumcised has ever expressed a need or want to have the foreskin on though.

It is almost like piercing a baby's ears. They won't remember it. You have to think about the future.

[andreerah]

This is such an interesting discussion especially since my husband and I are expecting a boy any day now. We decided to do it and I agree that is a decision that the parents can make and others should not become completely judgmental. Plus, I have to say you are right on the money with the FGM argument. As I commented on Maggie's blog, it's like apples and oranges. FGM is done as a means to control a woman. It's a barbaric practice that can lead to death, infection, and life-long pain.

[Anita]

Hi Alice, just one more reader in support of your decision. I always figured I would do it once I had a boy (though I don't have any kids yet) because I'd heard about the reduced risk of STDs, and honestly because it was good enough for Jesus. I'm not even that religious, but I figure it all kind of coalesced into a worthy argument for circumcision. And I definitely agree with the "mind your own beeswax" approach to parenting, as long as kids aren't being abused or neglected in the process.

[Colleen]

Wow, I never realized there was an anti-circumcision crusade out there. When our son was born I remember fretting over this a little because my baby brother wasn't and he always had some sort of infection or other under the foreskin. No matter how many times he was showed how to clean himself, it didn't matter. When I say it was nasty, I'm not exaggerating. So, I wanted it done but didn't really feel it was my decision to make. My husband didn't hesitate. He looked at me like I had three heads for even asking what we should do and made it clear he would be. I admit to feeling relieved. It was not a religious decision, it was a choice we both considered better to made then. He obviosuly has no memory of it and we've never looked back. Alice, good on you for even discussing it considering you were immediately put on the defensive.

[Molly]

Hello,

I got here from Maggie's blog, which I read regularly. I was very impressed by how well you handled yourself during an intense conversation.

Recent studies in the last couple of years have shown very strong evidence that male circumcision decreases heterosexual transmission of HIV by more than 50%.

The scientific findings are compelling, and I think this conversation will change drastically as this information comes to more people.

[lurky mommy]

It is soooooooooo okay to disagree and just do what we believe is best for our own families. We can still have respect for one another even if we aren't exactly alike--and we should! We circumsized for several reasons. My husband is and wanted our son to be so he didn't wonder why he was different from daddy as he got older. I am a nurse and have prepped 8, 11 and 13-yr. olds for surgery to be circumsized for reasons such as frequent infections due to not keeping things clean and being teased in the lockeroom for having a "hoodie". I can't imagine a newborn has a more traumatic time of it than an adolescent--better to do it when they have no memory than when they choose it for the sake of their self-image or are forced into it for the sake of hygiene and health. After all, how many of us are going to follow our 11-yr. olds into the bathroom and clean it for them?!?(years and years of therapy, anyone?) I have also cared for many elderly men who were uncircumcized and suffered from infections due to a loss of physical ability to care for themselves or loss of mental faculties that would allow them to care for themselves physically. How sad to add one more preventable burden to an already difficult situation. I once cared for a man who was admitted to the hospital with a horrible infection in his foreskin which led to a bladder infection which led to him becoming very mentally disoriented which led to him falling out of bed and breaking his hip which led to him developing pneumonia which led to his death. All in about 1 week's time. It is a stretch to say that if he was circumsized, none of that would have happened, but if newborn circumcision could have prevented part of that nightmare, then wouldn't it have been worth it? Also, I totally agree with your position on the difference between female circumcision vs. male. I spent some time in an African clinic, and every single woman I saw had complaints of vaginal problems and each one of them was circumsized. It is barbaric and causes numerous and lasting mental, physical and emotional problems. Some of the women were from a tribe that circumcised "seasonally" and they would hide their daughters during the time of circumcision to try to prolong the time that the girls could remain whole. It was not even comparable to what this conversation is about--the girls were cut with blunt stones or homemade knives while they were held down on the ground. Not sterile, not even clean and for such a horrific purpose, you can't even speak of then in the same breath. Ugh!