I leave the tough decisions up to the Internet.
March 22, 2005I can’t stop thinking about real estate, Internet. Specifically: should we stay in Brooklyn, or should we beat a shameful retreat to the suburbs? I need you to tell me.
We bought our two-bedroom apartment a few years back for a quarter and some old gum wrappers, and it is now worth billions. While this is lovely, it also means that if we hope to buy a larger space in our neighborhood—well, we can’t; it’s not even worth talking about. Our space is not quite large enough for us, and will definitely Not Work if we have another child (NO I’M NOT PREGNANT). With the crazy inflation of real estate prices in NYC, we will only be able to afford a lean-to on the banks of the Gowanus, and Henry and his imaginary sibling will develop extra limbs from all the fumes coming off of the fetid waters. So that’s probably not the best option.
So it comes down to this: either we stay in our place, which in addition to being on the small side is dark and loud (we’re on the first floor on a main avenue—in the summer people walk up to our window and ask for money. We’re like an ATM! An ATM for crazies!), or we move to an As Yet Unnamed Suburb. We’ve found a couple of areas that seem to suit our needs: we could probably afford a smallish house in one of these towns, which are close to the city and artsy/liberal. However (need I add this?) they’re Not Brooklyn. We would not have the library, the museum, the park, and the Botanic Garden all within a few blocks of our home. We would have to own a car (gasp!). On the other hand, we would have a backyard. And a decent school district. And amenities within walking distance. On the other hand I will be dead inside (probably). My youth gone, I will spend the days watching soaps and drinking Chardonnay; when Husband arrives from the city I will greet him at the door with pies made of Play-Doh and cigarette butts. Isn’t this what you suburban types do? Yes?
In a nutshell, I am driving myself bonkers. One moment I think I can never leave Brooklyn how could I even think such a thing and then in the next moment I’m dreamily picturing mornings with Henry and Scott in a sunny breakfast nook instead of our dank living room/dining room/kitchen that is periodically infested with vermin. I would give up a lot to never have to worry again about stepping on a waterbug on my way to the bathroom. And don’t try to tell me about the cicadas or grasshoppers or whatnot you have in the suburbs--they are not the same thing.
Basically what it comes down to is there are many pros to moving, and one big con: we wouldn’t live here anymore. We feel superior to you non-Brooklyn people. Now you know.
Opinions. Yours. Let me have them.
EDITED TO ADD: Before I get more defensive comments: do I really have to say that I'm being facetious when I say I feel superior? Do I have to say that? I guess I have to say that. Sigh.
Reader Comments (203)
The hubs and I just moved from NYC in August. We lived in Murray Hill and we took the plunge and bought a little house in one of the closest suburbs to Boston. It is still on the subway and everything. A 10 minute walk for us to get to the subway. The town also has a little town center with coffee shops and clothing stores and adorable boutiques that are fun to visit. I did have a bit of an adjustment period, I admit. I was terribly sad for a couple of weeks at the thought of having to drive to the grocery store and not being able to walk to buy dog food or visit the farmer's market. But I have also been ecstatic at having my own backyard and front yard and loads of space. Especially loads of closets, oh the beauty of closets, really. And a basement and a garage. I love my little house and my neighbors are pretty nice and fun. We get into the city when we feel like it and we stay home or go into our town center when we are feeling lazy.
I would sit down, I guess, and figure out how often you do the things that are available in Brooklyn. I remember that I was traumatized to leave NYC at the thought of not having central park and the museums and all the restaurants, but I finally realized that I didn't go as much as I thought I did, and it was more the idea of leaving that bothered me. It is such a personal decision. I also don't have a munchkin yet, so I can't weigh in on schools or kids, although our schools are great and that is one less thing to worry about.
Good luck!
While you'd still be you, and there would be other people like you who had also moved to the suburbs for similar reasons, I think you would probably regret your decision. If you have always been urban, and it means a lot to your identity (which is sounds like it does) to be urban, I think you ought to make the sacrifices and stay there.
Are the pros of the suburbs the kinds of things that really affect your fundamental quality of life? Only you know for sure ... sorry, baby crying ...
We like the suburbs fine, but I think I'm the person you would be trying to avoid by staying in the city so I'm not sure my opinion helps much.
what do i know, but you asked, so hear this...pick the city or pick a lovenest in costa rica, but don't pick the suburbs. at the risk of sounding like the worst mother in the world, think about what you would do if you didn't have kids and why you'd do it.now, remember that henry and imaginary sibling(s) will blossom wherever you take them...they're loved and they've got a dazzling mamma, (and father, i'm assuming).don't cut yourself out of the calculus because you think it will do a service to your kids. give henry what you would want for yourself...i think that's a pretty good rule of thumb.
plus, we'll miss you. and i don't want to think of you crying in the parking lot of your local strip mall because the only bookstore is a barnes and noble, and henry's favorite restaurant is applebee's. that sounds elitist. sorry. but seriously. think about it.
[nb. author grew up on a california beachside avocado farm and now chooses to live in brooklyn with husband, son and some rodent "friends."]
As one-third of the pieces on the board (in fact, I am the king...KING! I wear the pants in this fam-- oh, shit...bishop! Bishop coming! Defend me--!), I've got to say it's not the culture I would miss, nor the restaurants (we order the same damn burritos three times a week while not strolling around the BMA); it's the steeped-in-humanity feeling you can only get in a city. You walk out your door, ZA-BAM! there's humanity, demanding engagement, asking for change, or maybe wanting to share the Good News!
So it's rarely your type of human coming at you-- at least there's a sense that you're sharing the place with others. The resulting airborne mist of basic respect (and whizz) is something I never get when I go back to the suburbs. Here, you get to be near 2,000 people a day and not have to care about a single one of them, except so far as to not punch them as they pass. Is this so in the suburbs, fans of my wife?
Or do you GET to punch them as they pass? 'Cause if you do, I'm already pulling the car around, so be ready.
As one-third of the pieces on the board (in fact, I am the king...KING! I wear the pants in this fam-- oh, shit...bishop! Bishop coming! Defend me--!), I've got to say it's not the culture I would miss, nor the restaurants (we order the same damn burritos three times a week while not strolling around the BMA); it's the steeped-in-humanity feeling you can only get in a city. You walk out your door, ZA-BAM! there's humanity, demanding engagement, asking for change, or maybe wanting to share the Good News!
So it's rarely your type of human coming at you-- at least there's a sense that you're sharing the place with others. The resulting airborne mist of basic respect (and whizz) is something I never get when I go back to the suburbs. Here, you get to be near 2,000 people a day and not have to care about a single one of them, except so far as to not punch them as they pass. Is this so in the suburbs, fans of my wife?
Or do you GET to punch them as they pass? 'Cause if you do, I'm already pulling the car around, so be ready.
As one-third of the pieces on the board (in fact, I am the king...KING! I wear the pants in this fam-- oh, crap...bishop! Bishop coming! Defend me--!), I've got to say it's not the culture I would miss, nor the restaurants (we order the same damn burritos three times a week while not strolling around the BMA); it's the steeped-in-humanity feeling you can only get in a city. You walk out your door, ZA-BAM! there's humanity, demanding engagement, asking for change, or maybe wanting to share the Good News!
So it's rarely your type of human coming at you-- at least there's a sense that you're sharing the place with others. The resulting airborne mist of basic respect (and whizz) is something I never get when I go back to the suburbs. Here, you get to be near 2,000 people a day and not have to care about a single one of them, except so far as to not punch them as they pass. Is this so in the suburbs, fans of my wife?
Or do you GET to punch them as they pass? 'Cause if you do, I'm already pulling the car around, so be ready.
Then we moved to Los Angeles. I'll gloss over that part, it's irrelevant to this. But now we're contemplating a move back to the NY area. We can't afford a nice place in Brooklyn and we too have to consider schools etc. We're looking at two towns in NJ; one in particular has fabulous schools, an easy commute into town, and is very liberal/artsy. I worry about the sting of suburbia but from everything I hear, this town will feel more like home than home does. I'm content with the idea for now. And a friend who knows the area really well (he's in construction) says this town suits me and my liberal, artsy city slicker self like a glove.
Then again, I'd be moving from Los Angeles, not brownstone Brooklyn. So there's that. But I think there's an awful lot to be said for house-plus-yard-plus-peace. As long as the town has a soul and isn't a cookie cutter bedroom community.
I'm curious to hear your specific town choices.
We live in the 'burbs and love it. It's safe, clean, and green. We love our neighbors. There's good schools. Yes, you do have to drive to get your errands run, but I would think you'd get used to that. Getting to the city for museums and shows is pretty easy on the subway (which you also have to drive to).
I grew up in an apartment closer to the city than I am now, but still not right in the city. I hated it. I always wanted more space, more green, to be able to play outside. I only got to do that when I went to my friends houses in the 'burbs and I was jealous.
But I've never lived in Brooklyn or even been there. I'm sure it's a great place and you're really comfortable there. If that's the way you're used to living, it's hard to change. If you already have friends that live outside the city, they are probably the best source for specific info about that area to help you decide if you want to live there.
We can relate our experiences, but in the end only you know what is right for you and your family.
Sorry. Not an e-diot. Really.
My husband is so overenthused that he can't stop posting. My comment is so nice I'm going to send it thrice, he cried out! Whee!
obviously you need to do the pros and cons list thing (much advised, rarely actually executed). my family also does a thing of pretending that you've made one decision for a whole day, and then pretending you made the other decision for another day, and see which one gives you a knottier stomach.
thanks for letting us all weigh in on this...and good luck.
My husband and I moved from downtown Portland (OR) to the suburbs last year and it has been both good and bad. Good- because we're not paying a ton for a home we can't afford and because we eat at home more often since the only restaurants in the suburbs are chains like Applebee's, Chili's, Denny's...you get the idea. The down side? We don't get to downtown Portland as often as we would like. Portland has a lot to offer and now I just feel like we're out of it. We used to be on top of all the "goings on" and be able to explore the city at our leisure. Now we have to drive half an hour and find a parking space and we, quite frankly, don't just go wandering around anymore because we need to justify that 30 minute drive. That part is heart-breaking but at the same time I'm glad that I live in a safe neighborhood with great neighbors, low taxes, low traffic, and a low mortgage. I'm torn- as you will probably be no matter where you end up!
We were in a similar predicament to you recently, and we decided to move to the suburbs of a different city. We were living in the Washington, DC area and we moved to a suburb of Philadelphia. We were able to buy a much bigger historical home with a lovely yard, and financially it was a very good decision for us too. The keys for the selection of our new location were proximity to our family and the type of suburb.
I agree that many suburbs are horrible. But we sought one out that had a vibrant downtown we could walk to, easy transportation into the city, excellent public schools and town services, and a strong sense of community. I love the town we selected, but there were a number of places in our area that met those criteria. I think two things that really help make suburban towns livable: (1) age of the town, and (2) proximity to colleges. We live in a suburb that is about 200 years old. As such, while there are some new developments on the outskirts of the town, most of the homes are older and in established neighborhoods with big trees, sidewalks, etc. IMHO this makes the town not only architecturally more beautiful, but also more friendly and livable. Also, there are four colleges/universities in the township I live in, and there are many more in surrounding towns. I think having so many young people around leads to the vibrant downtown and great local restaurants and shopping. Also, it is nice to have all of the social, cultural and sporting activities associated with being in a college town, and it makes it easier to find qualified babysitters!
And there can be good food in the right burbs; and there are magical things, like humongous 24 hour grocery store palaces, with enormous aisles *not* crammed with drunks, junkies, and thuggish teens. I miss those every time my Orthodox neighborhood shuts down on Shabbos and I can't get a pint of milk for 24 hours, and the closest non-Orthodox grocery store is already closed. I don't miss commuting, but I miss being able to leave my coat in my car. I don't miss pollen allergies, but I do miss wildflowers. So there's the tradeoffs.
FWIW, to everyone else: this is not a chain-store mallrat town. I'm not even sure they have any fast food restaurants...