I leave the tough decisions up to the Internet.
March 22, 2005I can’t stop thinking about real estate, Internet. Specifically: should we stay in Brooklyn, or should we beat a shameful retreat to the suburbs? I need you to tell me.
We bought our two-bedroom apartment a few years back for a quarter and some old gum wrappers, and it is now worth billions. While this is lovely, it also means that if we hope to buy a larger space in our neighborhood—well, we can’t; it’s not even worth talking about. Our space is not quite large enough for us, and will definitely Not Work if we have another child (NO I’M NOT PREGNANT). With the crazy inflation of real estate prices in NYC, we will only be able to afford a lean-to on the banks of the Gowanus, and Henry and his imaginary sibling will develop extra limbs from all the fumes coming off of the fetid waters. So that’s probably not the best option.
So it comes down to this: either we stay in our place, which in addition to being on the small side is dark and loud (we’re on the first floor on a main avenue—in the summer people walk up to our window and ask for money. We’re like an ATM! An ATM for crazies!), or we move to an As Yet Unnamed Suburb. We’ve found a couple of areas that seem to suit our needs: we could probably afford a smallish house in one of these towns, which are close to the city and artsy/liberal. However (need I add this?) they’re Not Brooklyn. We would not have the library, the museum, the park, and the Botanic Garden all within a few blocks of our home. We would have to own a car (gasp!). On the other hand, we would have a backyard. And a decent school district. And amenities within walking distance. On the other hand I will be dead inside (probably). My youth gone, I will spend the days watching soaps and drinking Chardonnay; when Husband arrives from the city I will greet him at the door with pies made of Play-Doh and cigarette butts. Isn’t this what you suburban types do? Yes?
In a nutshell, I am driving myself bonkers. One moment I think I can never leave Brooklyn how could I even think such a thing and then in the next moment I’m dreamily picturing mornings with Henry and Scott in a sunny breakfast nook instead of our dank living room/dining room/kitchen that is periodically infested with vermin. I would give up a lot to never have to worry again about stepping on a waterbug on my way to the bathroom. And don’t try to tell me about the cicadas or grasshoppers or whatnot you have in the suburbs--they are not the same thing.
Basically what it comes down to is there are many pros to moving, and one big con: we wouldn’t live here anymore. We feel superior to you non-Brooklyn people. Now you know.
Opinions. Yours. Let me have them.
EDITED TO ADD: Before I get more defensive comments: do I really have to say that I'm being facetious when I say I feel superior? Do I have to say that? I guess I have to say that. Sigh.
Reader Comments (203)
I posted on our move yesterday, and a couple of others have done the same thing in the last week. It must be contagious.
We also could not afford to buy here, so we're renting. It may not be the wisest decision financially, but whatever -- I plan never to move away again.
When we moved to Queens, our kids were two- and five-years old, so I know about raising little kids in the city. I don't know about Brooklyn, but there is SO MUCH to do with kids in Manhattan. There are parks and playgrounds all over the place. (We were on the UWS, near Riverside Park and not that far from Central Park, so we were lucky that way. We used to go "playground hopping" in Central Park.) And then there are all the things you won't find in the suburbs, like museums and shows. Sure you could come into the city, but the logistics of that with little kids is . . . a drag.
It sounds as if you love Brooklyn as much as I love Manhattan, so my vote is: don't go! But I read all these posts from people who love the suburbs, and they do make it sound nice. It's a tough decision. But for me, those years out in far eastern Queens (the suburban part) feel a little like lost time. If I had to do it over, we never would have left the city.
Milford, CT
You will live happily ever after.
Pittsboro, NC would welcome you also.
To me, the thought of moving to the 'burbs is terrifying. Stepford Wives! An SUV in every drive! No clothes lines! Uniform postboxes! Kerry signs! (whoops ... promised myself I wouldn't go there ;) )
You get my drift. I'd be so unhappy living with my neighbour's homes looming around me, where they could see in my windows, check out the contents of my garage every time I got my car out. I'd hate their kids new go-karts on xmas morning and their dog shit on my yard.
If I was forced to move to A City I'd probably simply expire during a mysanthropic siezure.
What the Blue Fuck does this have to do with you, you ask? Well, just that I understand. I'd stay put. It's very clear that you're a city dweller. You sincerely love it. Water bugs and crazies are REALLY no more upsetting to you than fire ants and redneck fire works are to me. Just small stuff. 'Cause you really love where you live. You'd be no happier in the burbs than I.
HTH and good luck!
-Blue / http://www.hill-liles.com/blog.htm
I've lived in the center of major cities and in the suburbs. My husband grew up in the country. After evaluating our experiences we decided on the suburbs for our family.
Our suburb is a small city with a downtown that we walk to. It's probably best described as an urban suburb. If we want to go to the city, we can walk to public transit to get us there. We live across the street from a huge park and have a dog and three cats. My son will attend the Spanish immersion program at the local public school so he'll learn Spanish fluently. We walk to the grocery, to the farmer's market, to the library, to the park, to go out to eat, to bars, etc., so I feel that my son will get one of the best parts of living in a city: its walkability. Well, maybe not the bar part. But the rest.
I know nothing about NYC, but here in the San Francisco Bay, my husband and I found the suburbs more diverse and interesting than the city. Due to the expense of living there, the city is increasingly populated solely by homogenous, terribly chic, and ethnically bland twenty-something yuppies with no families of their own. Maybe you will find that you don't have as much reason to be superior as you think? Certainly that's what we found. I'm embarrased to admit how wrong we were.
You rock! I lurk!!
We just moved from the suburbs to the city. We pay double (!!!) to live in a 2 b/r condo in a funky area of the city with parks/museums/kids classes etc etc within minutes of my door step. On the con side, her wheelie tricycle has taken my living room hostage, my postage stamp patio is full of her crap - and I heard it only gets worse as she gets older.
We moved from a 5 b/r 3bath house which was a bitch to keep clean but the plus side was kicking her butt out the door to play in a safe fenced backyard....and babysitters galore on the block who LOVED her and considered it pure joy to take her out and REFUSED to be paid!!
BUT on the other hand, in my single days I lived in Brooklyn and (apart from falling in love and moving back to Canada) I would never consider moving from the greatest place on earth!! "An ATM for the crazies" - that's gonna be the title of Henry's autobiography
my humble opinion, but space is good. light is good. green, leafy things are good. 2cents.
That was four years ago. It's hard to describe how bad a choice this was - and now we can't get back out! I have made not one friend - and maybe you're thinking, well clearly she's an antisocial loser, but I've always been the kind of person who can go to a new city for the weekend and meet four or five people I stay in touch with forever. I miss things it never would have occurred to me I even liked. I watch TV every night (it only came on about twice a week when I had a life). There's just nothing to do after the first few months.
Of course, this is a far cry from anything that could be considered a suburb of NYC, so my experience may be totally irrelevant - but I tend to think that if being a city person seems like a big part of who you are, you really, really need to stay in the city. If I'm ever lucky enough to get back to ANY real city, they'll have to bodily drag me away.
I DID feel superior as a hip city dweller. I wasn't facetious at all. I totally fell for the suburbs are bland, boring thing. And OMG I am so embarrassed now to recall some of the things I believed. At least I managed to not spout off too much.
No place is perfect. IMHO you'd do well no matter where you lived.
I've read all of the responses and feel some sort of crazy need to add yet another one. I grew up in the suburbs, moved to the country after college; moved to the city after 8 years of the country and back to the country after 3 years of the city. In my opinion, the suburbs are a fantastic place to be a child. Don't know how they are for adults; I never was one there. But for a child under 14 say, the suburbs are great. Lots of kids to play with right there within walking distance. Outdoors. Maybe even on the street or at least in the backyards. Lots of families in general having their neighbors over for a cookout or what have you. Maybe this has changed since I was a kid, but we had serious freedom. We would be outside, unsupervised for hours, just being kids. All the parents knew each other so we would be in and out of each others houses and our parents knew we were taken care of. It's a great life for a kid. After 13 or 14 however, the suburbs suck bigtime. And as for you and your husband, you might be surprised by the people you find. And you might make it a point to find a house with a small grocery down the street. They do exist, even in the suburbs.
But maybe you are the type who makes friends with strangers. If so, ignore that advice.
Yowza. Would you look at all the advice?
I hated it. I only recently (sort of) forgave them. That apartment they left? Still rent-controlled. I? grew up a suburban kid, couldn't hack it in the city when I tried to live there after college, moved to Seattle, am here forever now and miss NY perpetually.
Everyone's experience is different, but based on mine, I say, stay. You won't get that steeped-in-humanity feeling anywhere else. And it's just as likely to be better for your kid(s) to grow up in the city as to leave it.
Also-- the suburbs may or may not be a great experience for (some) kids, but my experience and observation is that NYC is much better for adolescents-- they have more autonomy and a richer environment, and don't have to depend on a driver's license or parental chauffeurs to get where they want to go. I felt miserably trapped in the suburbs as a teenager.
(But all that said, if the bugs etc. are making you nuts, of course try somewhere else. Could you rent out your place and try NJ for a year?)
Besides, if you move to NJ, think of all the good material you would have!
The completely unsatisfying conclusion is that we will be crabby and miss whatever we don't have - if we moved to the burbs, we'd grumble about driving everywhere and how we have to mow the lawn all the damn time. If we stayed in the city, I'd bitch about not having a puppy and how all of our storage is wedged in giant boxes under the bed. The grass will always be greener - in the short term. I'm sure you'll thrive with whichever decision you make.
“What do you think?” they asked their son excitedly. “Should we buy it?”
“Sure,” he replied. “But how will we get it home?”
(I can't remember where I heard this story, but it sure sums up my vote nicely.)